MaplePrimes Site Changes: The Plan

bthur's picture

On September 4, I wrote a blog post asking for some suggestions regarding what we should do to update MaplePrimes.  The responses that we got back were varied and very valuable.  Using those suggestions as a foundation, we have mapped out a list of features that we will address in this project.

Migration to a Windows architecture & cosmetic update
As most of you know, MaplePrimes currently runs on a platform called Drupal.  Drupal was, and is, a great social networking platform, but it is written in PHP and our in-house proficiency in that language has diminished over the past few years, and this causes resource struggles when we want to work on Primes.  To remedy this, we are going to switch the architecture to use the standard Windows/Visual Studio platform that we use for our other web endeavours.  Among other things, one of the primary benefits of this change is that we will have increased capacity within our web development team to troubleshoot and update the site. Coupled with the architecture update will be an entirely new look and feel for the web site.

Important note: All content currently on Primes will be migrated to the new platform.

Improvements to typesetting & the addition of inline Maple plots
The reliability and ease-of-use of 2-D math typesetting will be improved. We won’t be able to support direct pasting of 2-D math from a Maple worksheet in this round of improvements, but we will definitely improve Primes’ 2-D math capabilities.  In addition, we will be adding support for inline plots so that you can include a plot command in a message and on output, the plot will automatically appear.  Of course, you can still include plots as images as you do now, but hopefully this added feature will make this easier.

Improved search
The MaplePrimes search will be dramatically improved.  We will take advantage of some in-house Google technology that we employ for our general site search, and this will dramatically improve speed and accuracy.  In addition, we will augment the general site search with some optional, advanced options to specifically search through blogs, particular forums/questions, use date ranges, etc.

Automatic links to Maple help
If you use standard Maple help notation in any of your posts (e.g., “?plot”), it will automatically be hyperlinked to the associated help file in the Maple Online Help system.

Rating content and tagging
The ability to rate and tag content will be added.  This will allow the community to bubble up the best content, and to also quickly search for content using tags.

Change style of forums to a question/answer format
This is something that wasn't raised as a suggestion, but it came up during internal brainstorming and we think it's a good idea.  Those familiar with the extremely popular Yahoo! Answers site, or StackOverflow (a resource for software developers) will know that these sites operate differently than standard user forums.  These sites ask users to submit a question and other people can then provide answers.  Answers can be voted on so that the best ones rise to the top, and everyone can also engage in discussions by commenting on a particular question or answer.  What results is a community-generated library of questions and answers, much like we have now, but in a format that is more focused on promoting the best response.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of content posted by users is in the form of questions, we would like to borrow some ideas from these sites and make Primes a very effective tool for users to get answers about math, Maple, MapleSim, or anything else.  Critically, you will still have the ability to maintain your blog and comment on any of the questions & answers, so the ability to discuss and debate different solutions, and initiate any type of discussion will remain as it is now.

I am very interested in your thoughts on this.

Some things that we will not be addressing in this update
There were a few suggestions made for elements that would mimic features that currently already exist in web browsers.  For example, there were suggestions to add the ability to store favorites, or to conduct a Primes search while editing a post.  For both of these cases, there are easy work-arounds directly within a web browser, and for that reason, we felt that it was a better use of our resources to work on entirely new features than to tackle those in this update.

Performance Improvement & Minor Bug Fixes
I commented on this in my last blog post, but for those who may have missed it, I am happy to report that we have acquired a new server and are currently in the process of migrating the current MaplePrimes site.  This will address the excessive downtime that we are currently fighting with and should improve site speed as well.  In addition, although we are discontinuing the current platform of Primes, we are going to address a number of the smaller bugs/improvement requests that have been made.  The current site will be up for another 3+ months, so it makes sense to address a few of them.  When we are ready to launch, we will post a message indicating the fixes that were addressed.

Increased Support from Maplesoft
In addition to all of the feature requests, a number of you mentioned that you would like to see increased attention to this site from within Maplesoft.  I am very happy to report that this is also happening, and more on this will be posted shortly! [Update to Original Post: Stephanie Rozek has now posted a message introducing herself as Primes' new Community Manager.]

So once again, I want to thank everyone for your comments and suggestions about the site, and please keep them coming.  MaplePrimes is very important to us, and we want to make sure that we are giving you the type of platform you deserve.

Bryon Thur

Comments

Can we have a preview of the new mapleprimes look?

Just wondering if mapleprimes users could get a preview look of what the new mapleprimes will look like before it actually goes online? 

I have been enjoying the current mapleprimes site for quite some time, and I enjoy the current layout of the site.  The only negative I currently have about the site is the copy paste directly from maplepages, which as you stated won't be supported initially.  This, I hope, is a must and should be a high priority on your list. 

Not sure if it's just me, or if it's related to the changeover but the search function on mapleprimes hasn't been working for some time.  I've had to use google to search for something in mapleprimes.

bthur's picture

Previews for Primes members

Thanks for the comment.  Giving a select group of MaplePrimes members access to preview the web changes is something that we have discussed internally and we're going to try and do that.  As Stephanie gets up and running in her role as MaplePrimes Community Manager, this is something that we will work with her to coordinate.  I'm glad you like the current interface, by the way.  It's certainly served us well, but it is starting to look a bit dated and could use a fresh coat of paint.

As for your other comments:

  • Direct copying & pasting from Maple will be addressed, just not with the current round of updates.  In general, however, 2-D typesetting will be improved and made more reliable.
  • The search interface will be dramatically improved.   For a good example of what we will be doing, check out the recently-improved search in our Maple Help System.  Results will be generated from a combination of our internal Google search engine, and our content databases.

Bryon

alec's picture

rtf

The latest version of rtf and the previous one (implemented in MS Office 2007) displays math expression quite nicely (in a way similar to LaTeX.) and the native conversion between that and MathML is implemented in Windows 7.

If Maple could switch to that instead of currently used scheme in Standard, the copying and pasting would be much easier to implement properly, at least in Windows.

Alec

question/answer format

May be good or bad, depending on the case. A post may contain e.g. an answer to a previous question, a new question prompted by the answer itself say, and some statements that are neither question nor answer. There are many such posts in MaplePrimes and I do not see how they would fit in such a scheme.

acer's picture

mining

Moving forward to a new question/answer format might be useful.

But I wonder how it might also be possible to mine the first 4 years of Mapleprimes to extract the best code, hint, tips, and solutions that are contained inside the posts and responses. There is a mountain of excellent information already buried in this site.

I would predict that for the foreseeable future the first 4 years' of Mapleprimes content would continue to dwarf whatever new is posted in terms of usefulness and interest, provided that the older material could be easily accessed.

While it's true that a lot of the threads in the forums are simple questions at their inception, the discussions often subsequently branch out. Sometimes the discussions take hard turns. And that is often where the gold lies, not as answers to the original (often mudane or faq'like) questions.

One of the things that I like best about Mapleprimes is that great content (code and knowledge fragments) is availiable without the polish or obscurement of material on the applications center. But such fragments are difficult to collate, which is why I suggested functionality for storing personal site-favourites. Managing browser bookmarks is pretty old-hat. Also, no matter how good any new Search facility is it would be painful to repeat any long search with many matched results, or to have to work harder than necessary to docket side-points of interest found along the way.

In fact, there is now so much great material on this site that it might merit having some single expert wade through and collate it by hand. For example, a book on advanced plotting/graphics techniques could be generated from this site's material alone. Not a dry user-manual sort  of book, but a how-do-I book with motivational examples and lots of The Big Picture.

acer

bthur's picture

'Favorites' concept

I didn't fully understand the scope of your "favorites" idea before, but I think I do now.

We have actually had recent discussions internally about developing some sort of "collections" feature that will allow members to group together content that they like into groups, and to share your collections with others on the site.  If I'm not mistaken, this seems to match pretty closely with your idea. We could even make the collections a collaborative type of thing.

Thank you for clarifying. I do think that this falls outside of the scope of what we need to do in the short term, but it's a terrific idea and one that I think will see the light of day at some point in the future.

Bryon

wade through and collate by hand

It has been always my opinion that the best of the posted material to MaplePrimes deserves to be edited and put together by expert hands.

But who will take charge of this work? It does not seem likely that Maplesoft will devote some employees for this job. Rather, Will's description  points towards an automated system. 

And what about the objections issued by some authors to the edition of their material?

   

Will's picture

Copy/Paste Typesetting

We definitely see the value of being able to copy and paste directly from Maple into Primes. Unfortunately, there isn't a way to support the clipboard in plain HTML and JavaScript. Within the browser, we only have access to the plain text data in the clipboard which is the same as you would get if you pasted straight from Maple into a text editor.

Now, an idea we have for the new site is to develop a new text editor in Flash. Flash would allow us to build a much more powerful editor that would avoid a number of the limitations of the current editor. It also would enable much richer Copy/Paste between Maple and Primes. We would leave a basic HTML & JavaScript editor available for those who don't have Flash installed, but we would defiintely encourage the use of the new editor.

What do you think of using Flash for the Primes text editor? Also I have created a poll asking if Flash is available on your browser. Please vote.

 

____
William Spaetzel
MaplePrimes Administrator
Software Developer, Maplesoft

JacquesC's picture

Massive overkill

I think a Flash-based editor is massive overkill for what's needed! 

Just have 2 tags, one (probably still <maple>) for interpreting direct Maple input and display it nicely [which I am looking forward to] and another (call it <mapleformat> or something, that's not so important) which knows how to interpret whatever gobbledygook Maple sticks onto the clipboard "properly".  And fix Maple if whatever is sticks onto the clipboard is sub-optimal.

That will be much less development work, and surely the web development group has better things to do than to develop a new editor?

Will's picture

clipboard

 As I've said though, in a web browser with only HTML and JavaScript, we're only able to get the plain text version of the clipboard. Try pasting from Maple into Notepad or some other text editor, that's what we have to work with.

Also, in JavaScript we can't detect when someone pastes in, so we can't immediately take action on it. If someone just pastes from Maple into the editor, it'll just appear as plain text.

Fortunately, Flash provides a drop in, Rich Text Editor Component that we'll be able to use with minimal additions, so developing a custom Flash editor won't be too difficult.

 

____
William Spaetzel
MaplePrimes Administrator
Software Developer, Maplesoft

momiji's picture

Copy as MathML

Since Maple 13, there is a "copy as MathML" option in then context menus couldn't that be supported in a javascript editor?

Will's picture

Q&A Format

The main idea with moving to the Question and Answer format is to help keep the threads on Primes in a format that is easily digestible by new or light Primes users.

We want people to be able to search for a question they have, and see the answer to that question clearly marked below it. The more structured format will allow us to do this. You talk about how the gems of MaplePrimes are often buried deep into a thread, this is the specific problem we with to avoid. We want the answer to bubble up to the top, and be discoverable without looking.

The new format will certainly change the shape of discussions on Primes, but we hope it will be for the better. In the case where one question raises another question, I hope that you will start a new thread with that question. And there won't be any restrictions from answering your own question.

To get an idea of how the new Primes will work, I strongly recommend browsing Stack Overflow. Most of the questions their have rich discussions beneath them, while still having it easy to find the answer to the problem right away.

I also recommend you read the Stack Overflow FAQ, as MaplePrimes will be following a very similar format to that site.

____
William Spaetzel
MaplePrimes Administrator
Software Developer, Maplesoft

acer's picture

alternatively

I was trying to say that quite a bit of what I see as valuable in Mapleprimes replies aren't actually the answers to the particular question posed in the top of their thread, but rather are side material. That is why I can't quite imagine how having the specific answers to posed specific questions rise to the top will help keep all that ancillary good stuff easily found/organized.

acer

alec's picture

editing

I'd like to be able to edit my posts even if somebody replied to them.

Stack Overflow has the shared editing - anybody (well, not anybody - so called "trusted users") can edit anybody else's posts. That's something questionable, I think.

Also, it looks quite ugly and has advertisements, same as Yahoo and other sites mentioned in this context. I hope this won't be implemented here.

Personally, I prefer Silverlight forums and MSDN forums look and feel.

Alec

collaboratively edited

This Stack Overflow FAQ states "Like Wikipedia, this site is collaboratively edited". Do you mean this feature for the new MaplePrimes?

start vs move

As said, some threads suddenly deviate into new topics, occasionally much more interesting than the original one. Or even branch into several distinct subthreads. And, as just replying is much easier than starting a new thread, that is what most posters do. So, somewhat confusing threads arise, occasionally with valuable material somewhere inside.

In my opinion, it would be great a  facility for moving such thread sections into new "single topic" threads.

Will's picture

Moving to a new thread

 Good idea, we'll likely add the ability to split threads into new topics in the future as well.

 

____
William Spaetzel
MaplePrimes Administrator
Software Developer, Maplesoft

Will's picture

Collaborative Editing

 We do plan to eventually allow high-ranked users to edit other people's posts. The idea is that they can help turn a question from helping one person out, into one that will be a useful reference for the future. And yes, you will be able to edit your posts even after someone else has replied.

____
William Spaetzel
MaplePrimes Administrator
Software Developer, Maplesoft

alec's picture

Poll about collaborative editing

That might be a good question for a poll - whether people prefer collaborative editing, or more or less the same as it is currently - with only moderators being able to edit other people posts. I think, giving "high-ranked users" moderator status might serve better this site needs, but other people might think different.

The current poll doesn't seem especially important - whatever settings are in the browser, they could be easily changed if necessary.

Alec

Axel Vogt's picture

Editing others posts?

Editing others posts? Without going into legal aspects: if afterwards there
is only the slightest impression, that the originator wrote that text and
had not explicitely accepted that  I find it really outrageous.

And if he is asked and accepts a suggested change he probably can do it himself.

Better organization for some threads is desirable, sure, but not at that 'price'.

At least you need something not to attribute that to a specific (natural) Person,
some collaborative thread ab initio.

Current available editing is good enough

Exactly, and if at some point someone were to read the thread of messages in the future and users had gone and edited their posts, some of the answers may become disjointed or unrelated to the re-edited message.  It could create some confusion.

The minor editing already available before someone replies, I find, is good enough.   

alec's picture

Well

Well, it may be good enough for you, but it is not good enough for me and several other users with number of points greater than yours. If there is going to be a poll on that (or other editing related) topic, it would be natural to weight the votes proportionally number of points, for obvious reasons.

Alec

A few comments

 

I think the Question and Answer system with voting for replies is ok, if each reply still has nested comments that move with the original reply.  One potential solution would also be to allow for different types of forums.  Maybe a set of Q & A forums with these voted replies, and a set of discussion forums where the comments work as they do now.

As for the colaberative editting, it seems like instead of allowing people to edit other people's posts, we should just add a wiki to MaplePrimes, (an idea that is not new).  When good information is developed in the forum, it can me made into an article in the wiki.

Darin

-- Kernel Developer Maplesoft

Axel Vogt's picture

A few comments: fine

I would agree - may be for nested comments a tree at the LHS (like at Google) could be helpful for orientation

Support for inline LaTeX style equations

There have already been requests for 2D math support but one thing I would like to to see is support to use LaTeX syntax (Together with some richer formatting, at least allowing bold/normal etc). There are already several mathematically oriented boards supporting the automatic generation of inline equation images generated from LaTeX code.

For example, I try to help students at www dot mathhelpforum dot com and to write equations you just write the LaTeX and the server runs some script to get the image representing the particular math you want and includes that in the text.

Assuming that the majority (?) of the people writing on MaplePrimes are proficient in TeX/LaTeX this would make postings a lot easier (and easier to read).

Drawback is of course that copy and past of partial expression is not possible directly. However, mathhelpforum has good way around this. Clicking on an equation image pops up a separate window with the exact LaTeX code used to generate the image. Hence., allowing the copy and past from previous and once own postings. This can be a great time saver.

If now only Maple 14 could support copy as LaTeX (as the competition does) this would be perfect :-)

/J

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