hello,
i have some problems with maple. i need to know an inflexionpoint of the following function:
f:= x->((x^3-x+1+(6/30))/(x^2-1));
i derivate till f'''(x) with the following commands
dv1: D(f)(x);
dv2: (D@@2)(f)(x);
dv3: (D@@3)(f)(x);
and here starts my problems. maple seems to do nothing. for dervation f'(x) and f''(x) it shows me nothing for derivation f'''(x) just a 0.
i suppose the mistake is in front of the computer :O. so what is wrong?
here my exact commands:
restart;
f:= x->((x^3-x+1+(6/30))/(x^2-1));
df1:= D(f)(x):
df2:= (D@@2)(f)(x):
df3:= (D@@3)(f)(x):
hope you can help with that.
(sorry for my bad english...)
colon and semicolon
The colon at the end of a statement will instruct maple to suppress the printed or displayed output.
A semicolon will not suppress the output.
Your last three assignments ended with colons.
acer
Working with "functions"
Acer's response addresses the main problem. Let me add a little more that should help down the road.
Maple gives you the choice to work with functions or expressions. It even allows you to mix the two. But, this is NOT advisable. In the original post, f is defined as a function, but the derivatives are defined as expressions.
This is very likely to lead to dificulties later. For example, to find the roots and stationary (critical) points of your function you would need to use something like
Instead, I suggest choosing to work only one type: expressions or functions. Here is how you would find the derivatives in both cases.
I hope this will be helpful,
Doug
woops....thx. next
woops....thx.
next question.
if i try to get the null points for a function that doesn't have null points does maple give me anything or just "blank"?
Did I read your mind?
As I was composing my previous response, you posted your new question. The answer to your question depends on exactly how you asked Maple to find a solution.
I am going to assume you are using functions.
This returns no solution. Nothing. Nada. Just a new prompt.
Include the (x) and you get the exact solutions.
solve( f(x)=0, x ); (1/3) 1 / (1/2)\ 5 1 - -- \2025 + 75 654 / - -------------------------, -- 15 (1/3) 30 / (1/2)\ \2025 + 75 654 / (1/3) / (1/2)\ 5 \2025 + 75 654 / + --------------------------- (1/3) / (1/2)\ 2 \2025 + 75 654 / / (1/3) \ 1 (1/2) | 1 / (1/2)\ 5 | + - I 3 |- -- \2025 + 75 654 / + -------------------------|, 2 | 15 (1/3)| | / (1/2)\ | \ \2025 + 75 654 / / (1/3) 1 / (1/2)\ 5 -- \2025 + 75 654 / + --------------------------- 30 (1/3) / (1/2)\ 2 \2025 + 75 654 / / (1/3) \ 1 (1/2) | 1 / (1/2)\ 5 | - - I 3 |- -- \2025 + 75 654 / + -------------------------| 2 | 15 (1/3)| | / (1/2)\ | \ \2025 + 75 654 / /And, if you then make 0 into 0.0, you will see numerical solutions.
This was working with the original function. You would need to do something similar for the stationary (critical) points. I'll let you determine exactly what you should be doing.
Awaiting your next question,
Doug
thanks for your reply. i
thanks for your reply. i think i understood what you wrote. but i didn't help me to solve my problem.
here my maple code:
restart;
f:= x->((x^3-x+1+(6/30))/(x^2-1)):
df1:= D(f)(x):
df2:= (D@@2)(f)(x):
df3:= (D@@3)(f)(x):
df4:= (D@@4)(f)(x):
df5:= (D@@5)(f)(x):
df6:= (D@@6)(f)(x):
df7:= (D@@7)(f)(x):
with( RealDomain ):
ws1:= evalf(solve(df1=0.0,x));
ws2:= evalf(solve(df2=0.0,x));
ws3:= evalf(solve(df3=0.0,x));
ws4:= evalf(solve(df4=0.0,x));
ws5:= evalf(solve(df5=0.0,x));
ws6:= evalf(solve(df6=0.0,x));
ws7:= evalf(solve(df7=0.0,x));
i just tested a bit to get used to differentiation in maple. i'm just interested in the real numbers solutions. maple gives me the following output:
ws1 := 0.3305756764, 1.745494243
ws2 :=
ws3 := 0.
ws4 :=
ws5 := 0.
ws6 :=
ws7 := 0.
what exactly does maple say me? the nullpoints for 2nd, 4th, 6th differentiation doesn't exist? and for the 3rd, 5th und 7th it is 0 ?!?
my target is still to get the inflexion point. that require that the 2nd differentiation has at least 1 nullpoint. the nullpoints of the 2nd differentiation are used for x in the 3rd differentiation. does this mean there is no inflexion point?!
regards
Look at the graphs
To determine if you believe Maple's answers, you can look at the graphs of these functions.
Also, re-check the definitions of critical points and inflection points. An inflection point is a point where the second derivative changes sign. One way this can happen is for the second derivative to be zero, but there is another way. I won't give you this answer, but I will tell you that I can see two points to check without doing any differentiation.
But, to get started, look at the graphs. You will need to specify the domain and the range, for example,
You might also want to include discont=true as an optional argument in the plot command. That's enough hints.
Lastly, using RealDomain can have some unwanted consequences. This does not always work exactly as you would like. I prefer to let Maple give me the complex answers and then to ignore them if I don't want them. Something like this can be useful too:
This will give you a list. To get just the elements of the list, append a [] to the end of the above command.
You should be getting close. Even though Maple can do a lot for you, you cannot stop thinking about what you trying to do and what Maple's responses mean.
Doug
I too wonder
edited: what I wrote, didn't make any sense the way I wrote it and wasn't relative so I deleted it.
Inflection
Perhaps it should be mentioned that the precise definition of "point of inflection" is not universally agreed upon. Do you include "points" that are not on the curve, i.e. values of x for which f(x) is not defined? Do you include points (c, f(c)) where f'(x) is not defined? And what about cases such as f(x) = x^3 + x^4 sin(1/x), f(0) = 0, where the curve has a tangent line at x=0, is above the tangent line in (0,a) and below it in (-a,0) for some a > 0, but f is not concave up on (0,a) or concave down on (-a,0) for any a > 0?
See e.g. the sci.math thread "true or false: (x^5 - x) has inflexion point at origin, (x^4 - x) doesn't" from August 2005, in particular my article of August 24.